Want a safe bet in the mortgage world? Try the Amish
Posted Dec 12th 2008 5:42PM by Sarah Gilbert
Filed under: Agriculture
The entire planet's mortgage crisis could have been so easily averted.
If only all of us were Amish.
While I dream of a world filled with people who honor the land and decry technology that is unnecessary (did you know? The Amish do use technology, but only if it's necessary -- milking machines, yes; Hummers, no), I understand that you can't unring our media- and technology-addicted culture's bell. On the other hand, it's great to be the mortgage banker to the Amish. Bill O'Brien, mortgage banker at the Hometowne Heritage Bank, has had one late payment this year in his $100 million portfolio. A few days late. And he's never had a loss on an Amish loan.
The risk profile is great, sure, but the work is hard, he says; he puts 1,000 miles each week on his car servicing his clients. (Sort of ironic, I think, given the Amish don't drive.) Interestingly, the Amish mortgages can't be jammed into CDOs or other securitized packages; due to an obscure legal rule, mortgages for homes without electricity, or homes that aren't insured, can't be securitized.
What can other mortgage bankers learn from O'Brien? Instead of relying on credit histories and scores or proof of financial stability, he talks to the borrower's father, and usually his father-in-law, too. "It takes a team to make a farm go," he tells NPR. If only if all of our families could operate in that manner.
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Want a safe bet in the mortgage world? Try the Amish
Started by leia, Dec 15 2008 10:05 AM
28 replies to this topic
#2
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dia·gram·mati·cal·ly chal·lenged
Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:08 AM
A Mortgage Banker In Amish Country
by Adam Davidson
Listen Now [6 min 26 sec] add to playlist
Slideshow
View Images Of The Amish Community In Lancaster, Pa.
David Gilkey/NPR
It's Your Recession.
We're just blogging it . . .
* On Planet Money
Morning Edition, December 12, 2008 · Americans have been hearing for months now about the devastating problems facing U.S. financial institutions. But in at least one corner of the country, the banking system is doing just fine.
In the Old Order Amish community of Lancaster County, Penn., most people use credit only when they buy a farm. They live within their means, and borrow from people who expect to get paid back. For many Amish here, their first major piece of property is a horse and buggy.
One day this year, hundreds Amish men clumped around an auctioneer. Calling through a portable loudspeaker, he moved among dozens of buggies lined up in a muddy field. Each buggy has a big sign in the window announcing it as a brand-new 2008 model. Amish teenagers kick the tires and check out all the new extras, like the fiberglass wind screen and retractable cup holders carved out of maple wood.
One young man tells me a typical Amish kid gets his first buggy at 16 or 17. I ask whether your father buys it for you. "Yeah, dad buys it," he says.
The scene, in many ways, could be from any ordinary automobile auction. One major difference is that Amish people don't take out a buggy loan. In fact, most Amish don't have much debt at all. They don't use credit cards, instead paying for everything with cash or check.
About the only time the Amish use credit is when they buy a farm. Such a large purchase requires bargaining, and means working with a banker. There are no Amish bankers, no Amish-owned banks, so they turn to local banks for help. In this community, one banker stands above all others: Bill O'Brien.
O'Brien says 95 percent of his customers at the Hometowne Heritage Bank are Amish. As the head of agricultural lending, he's responsible for about $100 million in loans. O'Brien, who's not Amish himself, meets with his Amish customers only face-to-face. He's something of a Santa Claus, with a big beard and a belly laugh. He loves telling the jokes he hears from his Amish customers, even if outsiders don't get the punchline.
" 'Well,' she says, 'you don't get out a two-row corn picker for a little nubbin,' " he says, rolling out a joke that I think is supposed to be dirty.
'Never Lost Money On An Amish Deal'
In most banks, a man who wants to buy a farm but has no credit history, no FICO score and not even a driver's license would be unlikely bet. But O'Brien is used to this.
"I'll find out who his dad was," he says. "I'm also interested in who his wife's father was. It takes a team to make a farm go."
O'Brien says the Amish are less risky debtors than people with access to all the tools of modern banking. The Amish live well within their means — no splurging on iPods or HDTVs, no dinners out that they really can't afford. The Amish think that missing a payment brings shame — not just on them, but on their whole family, their whole community.
"We've never lost any money on an Amish deal," he says. "So, I'll stretch my neck more for with them than maybe I will somewhere else."
O'Brien has been doing this work for 20 years. He's made countless thousands of loans — with no problems. This year, he says, one guy was a few days late on one month's mortgage payment. Everyone else paid on time, every time.
But it's not as if O'Brien's work is easy. He puts 1,000 miles on his car — every week. His customers are not into Internet banking. No, O'Brien has to go and talk to them, on their farms.
He takes me to the top of a hill, from which we can see dozens of farms below. I ask him how many of these are clients. "Every house," he tells me.
'It's Our Loans'
O'Brien knows which farms are doing well and which are struggling. He has to. When you lend to the Amish, you're making a loan that you're going to keep. You can't sell that loan to some other investor.
That's because Amish loans can't be securitized — they can't be turned into a mortgage-backed security or a collateralized debt obligation — like all of those subprime loans that have caused so much trouble.
You can't do that for an odd legal reason. Homes that don't have electric power don't qualify for securitization. Neither do homes without traditional insurance. Amish homes are unmodernized, and the Amish use their own kind of insurance.
"It's our loans," O'Brien says. "We write them. We have to service them. I haven't had that experience where you just pass it along."
This old-fashioned system works. In this year of financial crisis, of storied old banks collapsing in hours, Hometowne Heritage has had its best year ever.
And with the total collapse of securitization and all those fancy financial tools, it's tempting to say: Hey, when it comes to buying a house, we're all Amish now.
(npr.org)
by Adam Davidson
Listen Now [6 min 26 sec] add to playlist
Slideshow
View Images Of The Amish Community In Lancaster, Pa.
David Gilkey/NPR
It's Your Recession.
We're just blogging it . . .
* On Planet Money
Morning Edition, December 12, 2008 · Americans have been hearing for months now about the devastating problems facing U.S. financial institutions. But in at least one corner of the country, the banking system is doing just fine.
In the Old Order Amish community of Lancaster County, Penn., most people use credit only when they buy a farm. They live within their means, and borrow from people who expect to get paid back. For many Amish here, their first major piece of property is a horse and buggy.
One day this year, hundreds Amish men clumped around an auctioneer. Calling through a portable loudspeaker, he moved among dozens of buggies lined up in a muddy field. Each buggy has a big sign in the window announcing it as a brand-new 2008 model. Amish teenagers kick the tires and check out all the new extras, like the fiberglass wind screen and retractable cup holders carved out of maple wood.
One young man tells me a typical Amish kid gets his first buggy at 16 or 17. I ask whether your father buys it for you. "Yeah, dad buys it," he says.
The scene, in many ways, could be from any ordinary automobile auction. One major difference is that Amish people don't take out a buggy loan. In fact, most Amish don't have much debt at all. They don't use credit cards, instead paying for everything with cash or check.
About the only time the Amish use credit is when they buy a farm. Such a large purchase requires bargaining, and means working with a banker. There are no Amish bankers, no Amish-owned banks, so they turn to local banks for help. In this community, one banker stands above all others: Bill O'Brien.
O'Brien says 95 percent of his customers at the Hometowne Heritage Bank are Amish. As the head of agricultural lending, he's responsible for about $100 million in loans. O'Brien, who's not Amish himself, meets with his Amish customers only face-to-face. He's something of a Santa Claus, with a big beard and a belly laugh. He loves telling the jokes he hears from his Amish customers, even if outsiders don't get the punchline.
" 'Well,' she says, 'you don't get out a two-row corn picker for a little nubbin,' " he says, rolling out a joke that I think is supposed to be dirty.
'Never Lost Money On An Amish Deal'
In most banks, a man who wants to buy a farm but has no credit history, no FICO score and not even a driver's license would be unlikely bet. But O'Brien is used to this.
"I'll find out who his dad was," he says. "I'm also interested in who his wife's father was. It takes a team to make a farm go."
O'Brien says the Amish are less risky debtors than people with access to all the tools of modern banking. The Amish live well within their means — no splurging on iPods or HDTVs, no dinners out that they really can't afford. The Amish think that missing a payment brings shame — not just on them, but on their whole family, their whole community.
"We've never lost any money on an Amish deal," he says. "So, I'll stretch my neck more for with them than maybe I will somewhere else."
O'Brien has been doing this work for 20 years. He's made countless thousands of loans — with no problems. This year, he says, one guy was a few days late on one month's mortgage payment. Everyone else paid on time, every time.
But it's not as if O'Brien's work is easy. He puts 1,000 miles on his car — every week. His customers are not into Internet banking. No, O'Brien has to go and talk to them, on their farms.
He takes me to the top of a hill, from which we can see dozens of farms below. I ask him how many of these are clients. "Every house," he tells me.
'It's Our Loans'
O'Brien knows which farms are doing well and which are struggling. He has to. When you lend to the Amish, you're making a loan that you're going to keep. You can't sell that loan to some other investor.
That's because Amish loans can't be securitized — they can't be turned into a mortgage-backed security or a collateralized debt obligation — like all of those subprime loans that have caused so much trouble.
You can't do that for an odd legal reason. Homes that don't have electric power don't qualify for securitization. Neither do homes without traditional insurance. Amish homes are unmodernized, and the Amish use their own kind of insurance.
"It's our loans," O'Brien says. "We write them. We have to service them. I haven't had that experience where you just pass it along."
This old-fashioned system works. In this year of financial crisis, of storied old banks collapsing in hours, Hometowne Heritage has had its best year ever.
And with the total collapse of securitization and all those fancy financial tools, it's tempting to say: Hey, when it comes to buying a house, we're all Amish now.
(npr.org)
..
..
.
..
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If that's the world's smartest man, God help us.
~ Lucille Feynman
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Whatever.
Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:14 AM
Their food is good.
No Sig. Well, I guess if you want to be pedantic about it, the statement 'No Sig' is in itself a sig. Thereby rendering the whole exercise puerile and irrelevant in the extreme. Not that such trivialities ever stopped me before, after all, why the fuck should I care what anyone thinks about my sig, or lack thereof? In fact a rats nethers couldn't be donated by me, nor an act of airborne copulation. I sincerely hope this helps.
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Ideologically Unpopular Proxy Whore
Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:25 AM
I'VE KNOWN A COUPLE OF AMISH FAMILIES THROUGH ARTIFACT COLLECTING- THEY LET ME LOOK ON THEIR LAND AFTER THE HARVEST AND RIGHT AFTER PLOWING IN THE SPRING. THEY HAVE THE BEST RUN FARMS YOU'VE EVER SEEN IN YOUR LIFE, ORDERLY, WELL KEPT, EFFICIENT, PRODUCTIVE AND ALL DONE THROUGH HUMAN/ANIMAL EFFORT.
THEY'RE PRETTY BIG ON THE CIVILITY THING TOO. FRIENDLY, RESPECTFUL, COURTEOUS AND EXPECTING THE SAME IN RETURN.
THEIR LIFESTYLE IS THE KIND WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN EMULATING INSTEAD OF THIS GREEDY, GRUBBY, SHIFTLESS DEGENERATE CULTURE WRECKING WORSHIP OF THE YOU KNOW WHO PROMOTED BY THE MEDIA AND ACADEMIA.
WHAT A SHAME, AMERICA HAD SUCH POTENTIAL.
THEY'RE PRETTY BIG ON THE CIVILITY THING TOO. FRIENDLY, RESPECTFUL, COURTEOUS AND EXPECTING THE SAME IN RETURN.
THEIR LIFESTYLE IS THE KIND WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN EMULATING INSTEAD OF THIS GREEDY, GRUBBY, SHIFTLESS DEGENERATE CULTURE WRECKING WORSHIP OF THE YOU KNOW WHO PROMOTED BY THE MEDIA AND ACADEMIA.
WHAT A SHAME, AMERICA HAD SUCH POTENTIAL.
"You think when you wake up in the mornin yesterday don't count. But yesterday is all that does count. What else is there? Your life is made out of the days it’s made out of. Nothin else."
— Cormac McCarthy (No Country for Old Men)
— Cormac McCarthy (No Country for Old Men)
#5 *Alvin, the Hutterite~
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Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:29 AM
QUOTE (Francis Parker Yockey @ Dec 15 2008, 10:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'VE KNOWN A COUPLE OF AMISH FAMILIES THROUGH ARTIFACT COLLECTING- THEY LET ME LOOK ON THEIR LAND AFTER THE HARVEST AND RIGHT AFTER PLOWING IN THE SPRING. THEY HAVE THE BEST RUN FARMS YOU'VE EVER SEEN IN YOUR LIFE, ORDERLY, WELL KEPT, EFFICIENT, PRODUCTIVE AND ALL DONE THROUGH HUMAN/ANIMAL EFFORT.
THEY'RE PRETTY BIG ON THE CIVILITY THING TOO. FRIENDLY, RESPECTFUL, COURTEOUS AND EXPECTING THE SAME IN RETURN.
THEIR LIFESTYLE IS THE KIND WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN EMULATING INSTEAD OF THIS GREEDY, GRUBBY, SHIFTLESS DEGENERATE CULTURE WRECKING WORSHIP OF THE YOU KNOW WHO PROMOTED BY THE MEDIA AND ACADEMIA.
WHAT A SHAME, AMERICA HAD SUCH POTENTIAL.
THEY'RE PRETTY BIG ON THE CIVILITY THING TOO. FRIENDLY, RESPECTFUL, COURTEOUS AND EXPECTING THE SAME IN RETURN.
THEIR LIFESTYLE IS THE KIND WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN EMULATING INSTEAD OF THIS GREEDY, GRUBBY, SHIFTLESS DEGENERATE CULTURE WRECKING WORSHIP OF THE YOU KNOW WHO PROMOTED BY THE MEDIA AND ACADEMIA.
WHAT A SHAME, AMERICA HAD SUCH POTENTIAL.
Fock the Amish. Us Hutterites rule.
#6
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Whatever.
Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:39 AM
QUOTE (Alvin, the Hutterite @ Dec 15 2008, 04:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Francis Parker Yockey @ Dec 15 2008, 10:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'VE KNOWN A COUPLE OF AMISH FAMILIES THROUGH ARTIFACT COLLECTING- THEY LET ME LOOK ON THEIR LAND AFTER THE HARVEST AND RIGHT AFTER PLOWING IN THE SPRING. THEY HAVE THE BEST RUN FARMS YOU'VE EVER SEEN IN YOUR LIFE, ORDERLY, WELL KEPT, EFFICIENT, PRODUCTIVE AND ALL DONE THROUGH HUMAN/ANIMAL EFFORT.
THEY'RE PRETTY BIG ON THE CIVILITY THING TOO. FRIENDLY, RESPECTFUL, COURTEOUS AND EXPECTING THE SAME IN RETURN.
THEIR LIFESTYLE IS THE KIND WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN EMULATING INSTEAD OF THIS GREEDY, GRUBBY, SHIFTLESS DEGENERATE CULTURE WRECKING WORSHIP OF THE YOU KNOW WHO PROMOTED BY THE MEDIA AND ACADEMIA.
WHAT A SHAME, AMERICA HAD SUCH POTENTIAL.
THEY'RE PRETTY BIG ON THE CIVILITY THING TOO. FRIENDLY, RESPECTFUL, COURTEOUS AND EXPECTING THE SAME IN RETURN.
THEIR LIFESTYLE IS THE KIND WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN EMULATING INSTEAD OF THIS GREEDY, GRUBBY, SHIFTLESS DEGENERATE CULTURE WRECKING WORSHIP OF THE YOU KNOW WHO PROMOTED BY THE MEDIA AND ACADEMIA.
WHAT A SHAME, AMERICA HAD SUCH POTENTIAL.
Fock the Amish. Us Hutterites rule.
Fucking Luddites more like.
No Sig. Well, I guess if you want to be pedantic about it, the statement 'No Sig' is in itself a sig. Thereby rendering the whole exercise puerile and irrelevant in the extreme. Not that such trivialities ever stopped me before, after all, why the fuck should I care what anyone thinks about my sig, or lack thereof? In fact a rats nethers couldn't be donated by me, nor an act of airborne copulation. I sincerely hope this helps.
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Ideologically Unpopular Proxy Whore
Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:51 AM
QUOTE (Trevor @ Dec 15 2008, 04:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Alvin, the Hutterite @ Dec 15 2008, 04:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Francis Parker Yockey @ Dec 15 2008, 10:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'VE KNOWN A COUPLE OF AMISH FAMILIES THROUGH ARTIFACT COLLECTING- THEY LET ME LOOK ON THEIR LAND AFTER THE HARVEST AND RIGHT AFTER PLOWING IN THE SPRING. THEY HAVE THE BEST RUN FARMS YOU'VE EVER SEEN IN YOUR LIFE, ORDERLY, WELL KEPT, EFFICIENT, PRODUCTIVE AND ALL DONE THROUGH HUMAN/ANIMAL EFFORT.
THEY'RE PRETTY BIG ON THE CIVILITY THING TOO. FRIENDLY, RESPECTFUL, COURTEOUS AND EXPECTING THE SAME IN RETURN.
THEIR LIFESTYLE IS THE KIND WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN EMULATING INSTEAD OF THIS GREEDY, GRUBBY, SHIFTLESS DEGENERATE CULTURE WRECKING WORSHIP OF THE YOU KNOW WHO PROMOTED BY THE MEDIA AND ACADEMIA.
WHAT A SHAME, AMERICA HAD SUCH POTENTIAL.
THEY'RE PRETTY BIG ON THE CIVILITY THING TOO. FRIENDLY, RESPECTFUL, COURTEOUS AND EXPECTING THE SAME IN RETURN.
THEIR LIFESTYLE IS THE KIND WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN EMULATING INSTEAD OF THIS GREEDY, GRUBBY, SHIFTLESS DEGENERATE CULTURE WRECKING WORSHIP OF THE YOU KNOW WHO PROMOTED BY THE MEDIA AND ACADEMIA.
WHAT A SHAME, AMERICA HAD SUCH POTENTIAL.
Fock the Amish. Us Hutterites rule.
Fucking Luddites more like.
LIKE LUDDITE IS AN INSULT.
THAT'S A LAUGH.
YEAH ACTUALLY WORKING WITH YOUR HANDS IN THE FRESH AIR, PRODUCING YOUR OWN KEEP RATHER THAN SWINDLING PEOPLE BY SHUFFLING PAPER AROUND IN CIRCLES IS SOMETHING TO BE ASHAMED OF.
TREVOR, YOU NEVER FAIL TO LOWER YOUR OWN PERSONAL BAR.
"You think when you wake up in the mornin yesterday don't count. But yesterday is all that does count. What else is there? Your life is made out of the days it’s made out of. Nothin else."
— Cormac McCarthy (No Country for Old Men)
— Cormac McCarthy (No Country for Old Men)
#8
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nothing shocking
Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:54 AM
How odd.
About a month ago there was a show on either the Discovery/History/Science or National Geographic channel (sorry can't remember which one), that painted a HORRIBLE picture of Amish youth, as partying, drunken cretins.
It followed several Amish teens for a few weeks and recorded their wild ways.
I was pretty much flabbergasted.
I wondered why they were trying to tear down the image of the Amish.
About a month ago there was a show on either the Discovery/History/Science or National Geographic channel (sorry can't remember which one), that painted a HORRIBLE picture of Amish youth, as partying, drunken cretins.
It followed several Amish teens for a few weeks and recorded their wild ways.
I was pretty much flabbergasted.
I wondered why they were trying to tear down the image of the Amish.
#9
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nothing shocking
#10
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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:09 AM
THE AMISH HAVE A RITUAL FOR THEIR YOUNG ADULTS CALLED RUMSPRINGA.
HERE'S A LINK TO A TYPICAL NPR HIT PIECE-
http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2002/may/amish/
YOU SEE THE AMISH ALLOW THEIR CHILDREN THE OPTION OF EITHER REMAINING IN "THE LIFE" OR LEAVING AND GOING OUT TO LIVE IN THE OUTSIDE WORLD- UNLIKE THE REST OF THE CONSUMERIST DECADENT WEST THAT FORCES EVERYONE FROM FIVE YEAR-OLDS WITH BRATZ™ AS ROLE MODELS TO THE VIAGRA POPPING OCTOGENERIANS IN THEIR HI-HOP GEAR.
THE "DECADENCE" THEY DEBASE THEMSELVES WITH IS OUR WORLD. COMPARED TO THEIR CLOSE KNIT, SPIRITUAL AND HEALTHY LIFESTYLE THEY MAY AS WELL BE DANTE TAKING A SPIN THROUGH THE FIFTH CIRCLE OF HELL.
FWIW THE PERCENTAGE OF THOSE WHO EXPERIENCE RUMSPRINGA AND THEN CHOOSE TO LEAVE IS MINISCULE, VIRTUALLY ALL OF THEM MAKE THE CHOICE TO REMAIN- A FREE CHOICE I SHOULD POINT OUT AS OPPOSED TO THE SHEEPLIKE NORMATIVE BEHAVIOR FORCED ON THE GREAT UNWASHED HERDS OF UNGULATIS AMERICANIS.
HERE'S A LINK TO A TYPICAL NPR HIT PIECE-
http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2002/may/amish/
YOU SEE THE AMISH ALLOW THEIR CHILDREN THE OPTION OF EITHER REMAINING IN "THE LIFE" OR LEAVING AND GOING OUT TO LIVE IN THE OUTSIDE WORLD- UNLIKE THE REST OF THE CONSUMERIST DECADENT WEST THAT FORCES EVERYONE FROM FIVE YEAR-OLDS WITH BRATZ™ AS ROLE MODELS TO THE VIAGRA POPPING OCTOGENERIANS IN THEIR HI-HOP GEAR.
THE "DECADENCE" THEY DEBASE THEMSELVES WITH IS OUR WORLD. COMPARED TO THEIR CLOSE KNIT, SPIRITUAL AND HEALTHY LIFESTYLE THEY MAY AS WELL BE DANTE TAKING A SPIN THROUGH THE FIFTH CIRCLE OF HELL.
FWIW THE PERCENTAGE OF THOSE WHO EXPERIENCE RUMSPRINGA AND THEN CHOOSE TO LEAVE IS MINISCULE, VIRTUALLY ALL OF THEM MAKE THE CHOICE TO REMAIN- A FREE CHOICE I SHOULD POINT OUT AS OPPOSED TO THE SHEEPLIKE NORMATIVE BEHAVIOR FORCED ON THE GREAT UNWASHED HERDS OF UNGULATIS AMERICANIS.
"You think when you wake up in the mornin yesterday don't count. But yesterday is all that does count. What else is there? Your life is made out of the days it’s made out of. Nothin else."
— Cormac McCarthy (No Country for Old Men)
— Cormac McCarthy (No Country for Old Men)
#11
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hors d'oeuvres
Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:16 AM
Oh yes, the Amish are horrible, horrible people.
And their horses are ugly.
Plus, did you ever notice how Gandhi did not like clothes?
Kooks, the lot of 'em.
GO USA!
I'm happy I'm not judgmental like all you smug, superficial idiots.
#12 *Guest~
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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:25 AM
QUOTE (Francis Parker Yockey @ Dec 15 2008, 10:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'VE KNOWN A COUPLE OF AMISH FAMILIES THROUGH ARTIFACT COLLECTING- THEY LET ME LOOK ON THEIR LAND AFTER THE HARVEST AND RIGHT AFTER PLOWING IN THE SPRING. THEY HAVE THE BEST RUN FARMS YOU'VE EVER SEEN IN YOUR LIFE, ORDERLY, WELL KEPT, EFFICIENT, PRODUCTIVE AND ALL DONE THROUGH HUMAN/ANIMAL EFFORT.
THEY'RE PRETTY BIG ON THE CIVILITY THING TOO. FRIENDLY, RESPECTFUL, COURTEOUS AND EXPECTING THE SAME IN RETURN.
THEIR LIFESTYLE IS THE KIND WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN EMULATING INSTEAD OF THIS GREEDY, GRUBBY, SHIFTLESS DEGENERATE CULTURE WRECKING WORSHIP OF THE YOU KNOW WHO PROMOTED BY THE MEDIA AND ACADEMIA.
WHAT A SHAME, AMERICA HAD SUCH POTENTIAL.
THEY'RE PRETTY BIG ON THE CIVILITY THING TOO. FRIENDLY, RESPECTFUL, COURTEOUS AND EXPECTING THE SAME IN RETURN.
THEIR LIFESTYLE IS THE KIND WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN EMULATING INSTEAD OF THIS GREEDY, GRUBBY, SHIFTLESS DEGENERATE CULTURE WRECKING WORSHIP OF THE YOU KNOW WHO PROMOTED BY THE MEDIA AND ACADEMIA.
WHAT A SHAME, AMERICA HAD SUCH POTENTIAL.
sheeple were convinced by Greenspan types that the basics of life were old hat.......and consumerism was the new shining future.....because there was an economy to build doncha know!
people who chose to go back to the old ways of gardening, canning, bartering...will be fine.
those who believe they can't live without material things, will not.
#14 *Guest~
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Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:29 AM
QUOTE (Fay @ Dec 15 2008, 10:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How odd.
About a month ago there was a show on either the Discovery/History/Science or National Geographic channel (sorry can't remember which one), that painted a HORRIBLE picture of Amish youth, as partying, drunken cretins.
It followed several Amish teens for a few weeks and recorded their wild ways.
I was pretty much flabbergasted.
I wondered why they were trying to tear down the image of the Amish.
About a month ago there was a show on either the Discovery/History/Science or National Geographic channel (sorry can't remember which one), that painted a HORRIBLE picture of Amish youth, as partying, drunken cretins.
It followed several Amish teens for a few weeks and recorded their wild ways.
I was pretty much flabbergasted.
I wondered why they were trying to tear down the image of the Amish.
Same reason why anyone tears down what is basically good, pure and true to make it look ugly and tainted.
or tries to paint a tainted community as if it were an attractive thing of beauty.
it's an upside down world.
#15
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Whatever.
Posted 15 December 2008 - 11:32 AM
QUOTE (Francis Parker Yockey @ Dec 15 2008, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Trevor @ Dec 15 2008, 04:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Alvin, the Hutterite @ Dec 15 2008, 04:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Francis Parker Yockey @ Dec 15 2008, 10:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'VE KNOWN A COUPLE OF AMISH FAMILIES THROUGH ARTIFACT COLLECTING- THEY LET ME LOOK ON THEIR LAND AFTER THE HARVEST AND RIGHT AFTER PLOWING IN THE SPRING. THEY HAVE THE BEST RUN FARMS YOU'VE EVER SEEN IN YOUR LIFE, ORDERLY, WELL KEPT, EFFICIENT, PRODUCTIVE AND ALL DONE THROUGH HUMAN/ANIMAL EFFORT.
THEY'RE PRETTY BIG ON THE CIVILITY THING TOO. FRIENDLY, RESPECTFUL, COURTEOUS AND EXPECTING THE SAME IN RETURN.
THEIR LIFESTYLE IS THE KIND WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN EMULATING INSTEAD OF THIS GREEDY, GRUBBY, SHIFTLESS DEGENERATE CULTURE WRECKING WORSHIP OF THE YOU KNOW WHO PROMOTED BY THE MEDIA AND ACADEMIA.
WHAT A SHAME, AMERICA HAD SUCH POTENTIAL.
THEY'RE PRETTY BIG ON THE CIVILITY THING TOO. FRIENDLY, RESPECTFUL, COURTEOUS AND EXPECTING THE SAME IN RETURN.
THEIR LIFESTYLE IS THE KIND WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN EMULATING INSTEAD OF THIS GREEDY, GRUBBY, SHIFTLESS DEGENERATE CULTURE WRECKING WORSHIP OF THE YOU KNOW WHO PROMOTED BY THE MEDIA AND ACADEMIA.
WHAT A SHAME, AMERICA HAD SUCH POTENTIAL.
Fock the Amish. Us Hutterites rule.
Fucking Luddites more like.
LIKE LUDDITE IS AN INSULT.
THAT'S A LAUGH.
YEAH ACTUALLY WORKING WITH YOUR HANDS IN THE FRESH AIR, PRODUCING YOUR OWN KEEP RATHER THAN SWINDLING PEOPLE BY SHUFFLING PAPER AROUND IN CIRCLES IS SOMETHING TO BE ASHAMED OF.
TREVOR, YOU NEVER FAIL TO LOWER YOUR OWN PERSONAL BAR.
My bar is my affair, you never cease to find offense where there is none.
Get stuffed, since when does anyone answer to you?
No Sig. Well, I guess if you want to be pedantic about it, the statement 'No Sig' is in itself a sig. Thereby rendering the whole exercise puerile and irrelevant in the extreme. Not that such trivialities ever stopped me before, after all, why the fuck should I care what anyone thinks about my sig, or lack thereof? In fact a rats nethers couldn't be donated by me, nor an act of airborne copulation. I sincerely hope this helps.
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